I’m Ok With Biden…
August 23, 2008
I think Obama’s decision to choose Biden as his running mate was a wise - if even not the best - choice. I like the fact that there is, finally, someone to focus on besides Obama - who is becoming quite uninteresting - due to his move to the center. I do think Biden anchors Obama’s campaign.
Having said that, there is no reason Biden should have been chosen over Clinton. We are learning Clinton was not vetted - properly. In addition, the fact that Obama sent the text announcing his decision around 3am gives the impression Clinton was, again, being dissed by the Obama camp. Clinton would have anchored Obama and produced excitement. Biden does one of things. Biden does not guarantee a win.
Posted by Tony 
Posted in Bi/Partisan Politics, Current Events, Posts by Tony
August 24th, 2008 at 12:15 am
How is the 3am text message a slight of Clinton? I also don’t follow this logic that Biden is somehow interchangeable with Clinton. We need to be very careful that Clinton supporters don’t buy into the very transparent logic that the McCain campaign and Fox News are perpetuating in reference to the Biden choice. They are trying to spin the choice as an insult towards Clinton and they are also overplaying this story about her not being officially vetted. It is so obviously an attempt to reach out to disenfranchised Clinton voters. There is nothing that guarantees anyone a VP slot after finishing second in a presidential primary. Obama earned the right to make his choice and Clinton people need to get on the train because it’s leaving the station. This is not about Clinton anymore . . . i’m not sure how many more times this needs to be repeated.
August 24th, 2008 at 7:57 am
First, I said I am ok with Biden. I said Biden was a wise choice. Do I think Clinton would have been a better choice, yes. And I did not say being #2 should get anyone anything - what I did say is that Clinton can 1) anchor Obama’s campaign, 2) generate excitement. Biden does 1 of those things. My argument is Clinton would be a better choice. But again, I am ok with Biden. I like him.
Second, Clinton supporters are not stupid. We are not going to be fooled by Fox. I said the 3a thing could be taken to be a slight — a reference to the 3a ad - who do you want to pick up the phone - not Clinton! That’s how that could be read. She was not officially vetted - even though Obama (lying again, but no one seems to care) said she would be on anyone’s shortlist (anyone but his). In sum, Clinton supporters are, if they are, upset - not because of Fox News, but because they think Clinton would have been a better choice.
This campaign, contrary to your view, is about a lot of things other than Obama - Clinton is one of things. That’s just the way this political context has taken shape. And if Obama supporters ever repented of their idolatry - they would understand that and the political consequences of ignoring that fact. I am not sure how many times this needs to be repeated.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
First, judging by the recent polling, I’m not convinced that your fellow Clinton supporters have gotten the memo that this election is about issues rather than a political drama between Obama and Clinton. According to CNN, “Sixty-six percent of Clinton supporters — registered Democrats who want Clinton as the nominee — are now backing Obama. That’s down from 75 percent in the end of June. Twenty-seven percent of them now say they’ll support McCain, up from 16 percent in late June.” This decrease in support would be more intelligible if it reflected mere dissatisfaction with Obama but that’s unfortunately not what the polling indicates. Instead, McCain’s gains against Obama over the last two moments directly correspond to the transfer of support among Clinton Democrats from Obama to McCain. This cannot be attributable to Obama’s supposed “move towards the center” unless it makes sense for Democrats to resent his moderation and in protest vote for a conservative. Me thinks this is mostly about primary resentment and the polling seems to substantiate that conclusion.
I think the paranoia about Obama slighting Clinton over this text message is flatly absurd. It takes around four hours for a text message to be dispersed throughout the United States on the scale that the campaign was imagining. Therefore, they needed to send it out early to ensure that it was out there by 8am. This is what i mean by the continuing fixation with Clinton. Something as seemingly innocuous as a text being sent out to account for its widespread dispersal now gives the appearance of a childish slight at the Senator. Puh-leez. Tell me who actually thinks that is what is going on here other than some bobble heads over at Fox News who let it be known don’t really believe that but just hope there are some seething Clinton supporters angry enough to entertain such nonsense.
My annoyance with this continuing drama between Obama and Clinton is not because I am possessed by some wide-eyed obsession with Obama. It’s informed by the very harrowing realization that the Democrats need to get unified and soon or we will lose this election. It’s unfortunate that Senator Clinton chose to so explicitly attack Obama’s credentials in the primary-even more directly than Biden–and I imagine this is why she was not seriously considered. I had hoped he might consider her nonetheless but her rave reviews for McCain and criticism of Obama at that press conference in Ohio may have alone guaranteed she would not be considered. That gaffe on her part was equivalent to Howard Dean’s scream fest in Iowa and was what prompted Richardson to endorse Obama.
August 24th, 2008 at 10:00 pm
1) Your first paragraph makes no sense. Of course Clinton supporters are dissatisfied with Obama - and have become more and more so over the past few months….some supporters of Clinton, I think, have become convinced that Obama is a liar and that McCain will keep the country safe, etc…In the end, I just don’t think you get it - not b.c. you’re dumb, but because you, like your political idol, don’t understand Clinton folk. It is about issues - it always has been. Obama people are the ones who vote for the rhetoric and not on the issues. Talk about a cult if personality. So give me a big fat break and retire that trope.
2) I did not say I agree that the 3a thing was deliberate. I said it can appear that way - and it’s not just FOX; it’s all the new stations talking about the 3a thing. Whether you get it or not, like it or not, the general election stuff cannot be separated from the primary context. That’s just the way it is…And this has nothing to do with Fox News - you may not like Clinton supporters, Matt, but we’re not seething b.c. of Fox. For a campaign as smart as Obama’s, they had to know about this issue or understand what it would seem like. Logistics, blah blah blah…no more excuses puh-leeez.
3) Come together? At what cost? Here again is the god of unity - the god of empire. And give me a break. Biden, for the amount of time he was in the race, said some stinging things. But whatever - if you cared about unity - if Obama cared about unity, about winning, he would have chosen Clinton. So this is just more of the same from Obama people.
August 24th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
I guess I’m not sure how my first paragraph doesn’t make sense. My point is that Clinton voters are increasingly supporting John McCain despite the fact that he only supports free market solutions to the health care crisis, domestic oil drilling as a major part of our energy strategy, would only appoint pro-life justices to the Supreme Court, etc. How could such support possibly be consistent with the governing philosophy of Hillary Clinton? It’s plainly not Tony. I understand that some Clinton supporters don’t like Obama but he and Clinton hold very similar positions on all of these major issues over and against McCain. If a quarter of Clinton supporters voting for McCain is supposed to reflect a familiarity with Senator Clinton’s positions and a commitment to furthering them in the public square, that’s an awfully odd (and incoherent) way of showing it.
This 3am thing is ridiculous. It’s a non-issue. The texts were sent out immediately after John King received a leak about the nomination. There was nothing premeditated about it. I wonder whether Obama will ever be allowed to do anything important at 3am if he becomes President? I think we should past a federal law against any references to “3am” in election related matters since it apparently hurts peoples feelings.
I don’t understand why all of the sudden you are upset about this VP nomination. You had previously acknowledged that it was unlikely that Senator Clinton would be the nominee and now all of the sudden you are upset that your suspicions were confirmed. Conventions are about unifying political parties, you might consider that tyrannical logic but infighting is the purpose of a primary, not a convention. Making a stink out of 3am text messages and the fact that Obama has “only helped” raise 2 million dollars for Senator Clinton really makes me think that a lot of Clinton’s core supporters are going to hold onto this bitterness until the very end . . . hopefully they’ll get over it around the time John McCain is getting inaugurated or when he appoints the fifth pro-life justice just in time to overturn Roe v. Wade. In that scenario, I suppose they will have new things to worry over like reproductive freedom instead of text messages.
August 25th, 2008 at 7:30 am
Well, this is an intense discussion. Haha.
First, as you know, Clinton supporters are not as monolithic as Obama people. If people are going over to join McCain, it may be for the following reasons: 1) they trust McCain; 2) he is strong on national security, 3) Obama has not proven he can lead - and that concerns people. In this morning’s US Today, over 50% believe Obama is too inexperienced. So, this is about the issues - maybe not the issues you want it to be about - but these people may not be the people you or most liberals want to really engage…And let’s not forget that Obama changes his mind on the issues when it’s politically expedient. His primary commitments are not - in every case - what he is about now. You know that. And your comments in this regard made no sense because you just said people are going over to McCain for some purpose of revenge - and totally discount the fact that it may really be about the issues - and just dismiss that fact as ‘that’s not what the polling indicates.’ - and don’t support that statement. That first paragraph was a reflection of anxiety and so it was poorly argued.
Second, I agree with you, in case you are missing that, about the 3a thing. But what everyone learns in the professional environment is impressions make a difference. Like it or not, the 3a thing was not good luck or it was a bad joke - depending.
Third, I am not upset re: Biden. I like the guy - as Obama said, Biden will be the next president. I am ok with that. I simply said that there was no good reason that Clinton was not chosen…not one. If you want unity, Clinton. If you want to win, Clinton, etc. But I am ok with Biden - a good choice, just not the best choice. The convention will be fine - the election won’t be if you Obama people want to continue being arrogant and in denial about the political context. You just don’t get to ignore someone who has 18 million supporters and the first woman to win more than one primary contest. That’s the way it is. If Obama tanks in this thing - it’s his fault - and yours - for sticking your nose too high in the air.